Realtor and zoning expert Ashmael Brun joined Storii Time to chat with Saad and Mike about trends in real estate zoning and what that means for homeowners.
Saad: Is this your first time doing a live, Ash?
Ash: Yeah.This is my first time doing a live with you.
Saad: Oh, I’m surprised. Well, the first thing I wanna say is congratulations on the close of that property I randomly posted on my story yesterday.
Ash: Yeah.That was, that was actually, that was perfect timing.
Saad: That was perfect timing. Because we were just jumping into that.
Saad:
So so, Mike, the the video I posted yesterday
Mike: Yeah.
Saad: Ash closed it. So Alright.
Mike: That property. So that’s awesome. Congrats, man.
Saad: Congratulations, man.
Ash: Thank you. That was, that was a pretty cool deal, you know, just mostly working with investors on that one. And, you know, obviously, that’s a different type of transaction compared to
Saad: Absolutely.
Ash: Residential.
Saad: That was a three that was a three family. Right?
Ash: Yeah. Triple Decker.
Mike: Nice.
Ash: East Boston. So that was nice.
Saad: Awesome. Awesome. Well, for those people who just joined and the people joining and kinda listening to the recording later on, this is Ash. He is a fellow real estate agent. He’s been in the business for five years.
Ash: Actually, it’s been, like, 2019.
Saad: So Okay.So more than me. So it’s going closer to seven years. I saw it looks like I probably saw an older video.
Ash: Yeah.
Saad: What you said you were there for five years. But, Ash has been doing this since 2019. He’s at EVO. He works with a lot of developers. The main reason that we’re we have him on the call on the live today is he’s got a lot of experience, you know, as a result of working with developers and as a result of working with the city of Everett. He’s got a lot of experience and knowledge on zoning.
Saad: So, Ash, let’s start with just a quick intro about you. Obviously, I said a few things already, but, a quick intro about you and also what is zoning?
Ash: So, you know, just a bit about me. Obviously, me being in real estate in this profession, this is something that I’ve always wanted to do growing up. I’ve had family in real estate, and they’ve always pushed me in that direction. And, obviously, just from my own self and my own understanding being in this industry, you have to have a specific type of personality to be in this business.
Ash: So, it really suits me. I love negotiating. I love working with my clients. And then another thing about me too, that goes hand in hand with this business is it’s not just transactions. I’m also heavily involved in my community. You know, I interact with a lot of the people that live in my community and get their perspective, and also push that homeownership dream as well. So yeah.
Saad: Oh, my god. Can you tell us really quickly a little bit about the work that you do with the city of Everett?
Ash: Yeah. So, this work is it’s really cool because it’s something that I can tie into real estate. So me being on the zoning board, for the people that don’t know what zoning is, it’s basically a set of guidelines and codes that let homeowners or let people know, hey. This is what you can build in a specific lot or this is what you can build in a specific, district. So every city has their own zoning guidelines, and different parts of the city is split up into different zones. So you’ll have a multifamily zone or a zone specifically designated for single-family.
Ash: So in each zone, you can you can build specific, type of real estate. So my work with the city of Everett is I have four other board members that I work alongside, and we get projects that come in, plans, whether it’s a homeowner who wants to do an addition to their home or a developer who wants to build something.
Ash: And we review those plans. We review the projects. And whether they’re requesting a variance or there’s different requests, and we review the plans. And based off what they’re requesting, we decide whether or not we wanna approve or or deny, what whatever they’re seeking.
Ash: So that’s just a case.
Saad: Yeah. And obviously, being in that type of role, that’s gotta be invaluable for your client.
Ash: Yeah. Oh, man. It’s giving me a completely different perspective on just zoning, the city, just people’s quality of life, day-to-day interaction. So, yeah, it’s been it’s been a great experience.
Saad: Love that. Mike, what do you got?
Mike: Yeah. Ash, thanks for coming on, man.
Ash: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely.
Saad: I’m so rude. Oh, you guys have never met before. My apologies.
Mike: I don’t expect much anymore. And, who is it?
Saad: But, you know, like, Mike, so, Ash, Mike’s actually been in real estate longer than myself.
Ash: Oh, wow.
Saad: Longer than you. He’s been doing this for some time. He’s got tons of experience as he lives in Dorchester. He knows the city really well.
Ash: Mhmm.
Saad: He’s on all different types of deals. So, but when I mentioned to him, I’m like, hey. You know what? We should try bringing on Ash. He’s like on the zoning board in Everett and, you know, might have some really good intel for us. He was psyched. So he’s got some questions for you, and I’ll let him kick it off.
Mike: Yeah.
Ash: For sure.
Mike: It is very much an interest of mine because it really does dictate, like once you know about different zoning requirements, it you look at the city completely differently. You’re like, why is that next to this? Or why do all these three, you know, triple deckers in this area, you know, why is it laid out that way? So it really does dictate how things look and feel.
Mike: So I guess just to get started, since you’re on the board and, you know, we’ve had some brief I’d say the the biggest zoning, conversations as of late have been, you know, along the commuter rail, for towns there and then the ADUs, the, additional dwelling units, on properties that have been passed.
Mike: So I guess just like, you know, trends in the last year or two, maybe things that you’ve seen in Everett that you’ve passed, like, a, like, a change in or, you know, what the city has been doing because people forget that zoning really does dictate this housing shortage that we have, and being creative with that is gonna help a lot of people.
Mike: So, yeah, just some trends in the last couple years to kick us off.
Ash:Yeah.I think, definitely, like you said, zoning dictates a lot. I think one of the two pieces that you hit on that were very powerful were ADUs. And for people who don’t know what ADUs are, it’s an additional dwelling unit. So there’s been a huge zoning overhaul, which is allowing homeowners to basically add an additional dwelling unit to their property. So sometimes you’ll have a property with a yeah.
Mike: What was the what was the law or the zoning requirement bef like, how did it change? What was it like before, and why was this so monumental?
Ash: So, I mean, before ADUs have always been sort of, like, you could’ve pushed for an ADU.I think with the zoning overhaul now, it’s just making it more accessible. So there you you have to jump through less hoops in order to fully execute on your on your ADU, which is huge because, right now in particular, you have families. Like you said, there’s been a huge housing shortage. And one thing that I’ve been seeing a lot on my end is a lot of people coming, for projects where they wanna do additions on their own, not simply just for design or for the sake of doing something like that. It’s genuinely because their families are growing. Maybe people have an in law that they’re living with, or they just had another kid or you know, a lot of things that you’re seeing right now too is a lot of the younger generations that are getting pushed out of housing. A lot of them are still living with their families.
Ash: So it’s been a complete change to have that ADU put in place and to make it less restrictive, because now people can, let’s say, build something out in their basement or, like like you said, if there’s a huge cottage in your backyard that you can transform into another unit, now you can utilize that to create more space for your family.
Mike: question on that. Not to get we can go down the rabbit hole and be here for hours probably on, like, the specifics of everything. But, like, what is something easier now? What does it mean to have lesser of a hoop to jump through?
Ash:
Like, for instance, let’s say you’re speaking of variance for let’s say there was just a specific setback. And this this can vary from city to city. That’s why I’m not giving you, like, a straight particular answer.
Ash: But I’ve had people come for a you know, this setback was this, and I’m looking to get a a a variance for this because I can’t build this ADU out because of this particular setback. That something that we could look at and say, hey. You know what? Maybe this isn’t affecting your your neighbor or your your, you know, you’re you still have you still you’re still within a specific distance from the from your neighbor who’s abutting you, we’ll approve that.
Ash: So that that’s just that’s just one thing. I’ve seen a couple of different scenarios before.
Ash: But, what’s interesting is is is we live in a city or just a state in general where lots get split up and it’s super weird. I don’t know how to describe it, but if you if you’re familiar with zoning, you’ll understand what I’m talking about.
Ash: Maybe you’ll have somebody in 1930. They did a subdivision on a lot. And it’s the weirdest subdivision you’ve ever seen.
Mike: But it’s all yeah.
Ash: It’s just all crooked-looking, but it’s still in place even till today. And we have to look at those particular lots and still be able to pass certain variances on lots like that as well. So that’s just I’m just giving you an example, but Massachusetts in particular, because we’re such an old state, you get so many old lots and and and things like that. So, definitely, setbacks. That’s something that we could we could jump through hoops for that.
Ash: You know, you wouldn’t if you were to jump through more hoops to get that, it’d probably be easier to get approved.
Saad: Great.Gotcha.
Mike: Appreciate that. That sounds good.
Saad: A few welcomes. We got Top Quality Services Inc, Deloree Law. I’ve got Andrew. He’s on the house. Chris Aguirre, Kevin Rosado, Sanay Loans, a bunch of new people.
Saad: Awesome. Thanks for joining, guys. You know? We knew Ash would drive a crowd.
Mike: Ash would bring it in his own posse. Yeah. I love it.
Saad: I love it. A couple of things that I wanted to ask. But, Taylor, what’s up? Thanks for joining.
Saad: The so one of the things you mentioned in your notes in advance of the live today, was missing middle housing. That’s the first time I’ve heard that phrase. Can you explain what that is and what it means when it comes to zoning?
Ash: So, I pointed that out because townhouses have been a huge restriction. And, you know, I’m not sure what cities or what other cities are doing. I can only speak for my city, but, you know, one thing that I would love to see more of is townhouses, you know, townhouses, condos. I think a lot of people go for these big buildings, these big rental buildings. But the reason why I made an emphasis on middle housing was it’s it’s specifically those two things, townhouses and condos, because I think those could provide a low entry point for buyers who necessarily can’t afford a single-family.
Ash: Right? Or maybe they’re a young professional. They don’t need all that space, but they still would would wanna benefit from homeownership. I think it’s gonna give them that opportunity.
Ash: And another thing too, on the city end of things, when you’re doing all these rental buildings, you know, you’re not creating a sense of ownership for people who purchased in the city. And when you get into quote unquote middle housing, not only do we get more inventory, but the people who are buying, they’re buying into the city. And you can get that sense of ownership where these people are gonna be more tied into the community and the development in the community versus somebody who was renting.
Saad: Got it. So when you talk about middle housing, you’re talking about, like, size.
Ash: Correct.
Saad: Talking about you’re talking about, like, single-family versus high-rise larger buildings. You’re not talking about those. You’re talking about the middle, like Yeah. Two unit buildings, three-unit buildings, maybe four-unit buildings that
Ash: Yeah. That kinda thing. And I think specifically mostly, you know, townhouse. Yeah. Things that people can create ownership with. That’s that’s my main emphasis.
Saad: Got it. Yeah. One thing I wanna ask about is going back to something that Mike mentioned was transit. So can you talk a little bit about how things have changed when it comes to zoning laws around the T commuter rail, things like that?
Saad: Like, any any trends you’ve seen or anything that people should kinda know if they’re out in the market, whether they’re investor, developer, buyer, etcetera?
Ash: This is this has been this has been out for some time, but, cities are still sort of kinda floating it in. But there’s been a huge push for multifamilies, specifically three families to get built around, transit areas or anywhere where there’s a t stop, just because, again, you guys probably know there’s a lot of people trying to house hack, but multifamilies have also become a rarity. And that’s something that we I think multifamilies are very powerful. Right?
Ash: I’m sure you guys can agree with me. You know? But again, we don’t have so many of that. So there’s been, there was a huge controversy with I think there was a city in the South Shore who didn’t vote it through, but, that’s something that, most cities are trying to vote through now to to be able to have space near multifamilies near transit.
Saad: And So you mean one thing that–you mean you mean building new ones?
Ash: Yeah. Building new ones. So there’s a specific, there’s a specific push for that. Right?
Saad: Got it.
Ash: Where if you’re within a T stop, you can actually go for for a multifamily.
Saad: Got it. I I think that’s really interesting because the trend has been, like well, obviously, there are a lot of multifamilies, but they’re all old. All of them are old. Maybe they’ve been, renovated on the inside to an extent. Maybe one unit has been renovated, all that stuff. Right?
Ash: Yeah.
Saad: Or you see these renovate these, you see these, multifamilies that have been acquired and then turned into condos. Right? So you don’t see new multifamilies.
Saad: That is what Ash is talking about, I think is really interesting and something to keep in mind because unlike other parts of the country, you aren’t seeing new multifamily. So if this does go pass and you start to kinda see developers kinda grab onto it, especially around transit, it becomes really interesting for investors and house hackers.
Ash: And house hackers, too because, that’s also something that’s been powerful. People could get into a three family house hack it and and lower their mortgage payment, which has been a huge tool. It’s just now we don’t really have that in any three family.
Saad: Yeah.
Mike: It’s funny how that just from my own reading and stuff, though, it’s funny how each time period produces that. So, like, that’s why every multifamily is, like, eighteen ninety, 1,900, nineteen ten bills because when that’s all those were coming up, and that was the actual intent of those was to find, like, an ability to either you had generational you had generations of your family in one house, or the intent was for somebody to own it and rent it out to even back then.
Mike: And then when the ’19, I think, seventies or eighties came along, that’s when the condoization of these things started. So in all that time, there wasn’t any of that. And, of course, you have, you’d have people not building them for that time, and then one by one, they get taken and converted into condos and sent that way.
Mike: So it’s a very, very interesting, just like now this could be a budding new thing, and people can look it back on this time period as, like, a a new generation of these particular properties. I think that’s great.
Ash: Yeah. And we need and we need it. You know, we need more multi. So, that’s been huge. And I just wanna point out the piece on it being in a train right near a transit location, which I think was very strategic because, again, traffic has been a huge pain point or just a sticking point for a lot of people.
Ash: So being able to do that near a transit, which, again, would limit, you know, the amount of cars people are people are using, people could take the train instead of driving. So, yeah, that’s just my thought process on it.
Mike: Yeah.
Mike: Saad, like, this can even go back to last week when we’re talking about, like, the economical, way for builders in, like, you know, more expensive suburbs is to take maybe the old Cape and on the same, footprint of land, build the, like, the attached single families that are there so you can sell two dwellings instead of, having the one.
Saad: Absolutely. I mean,I will say one thing to add to that, though, is that I don’t think that’s just the suburbs. You’re seeing that in the city too. Like, like, where they can.
Mike: Yeah. I say the suburbs, but it’s Boston almost has, like, these hybrid where it’s, like, just outside the city.
Ash: Kind of Like, great. Right? You were referring to Greater Boston, though those outskirts cities. Quincy is a good one. I know what you’re talking about.
Saad: And so can you talk about, like so for example, I live in a historical, apartment. So, like, this association, I’m a part of its four units. It’s a historical, like, structure. Got renovated in 2017, all that kind of jazz, but there’s some rules that need to be followed.
Saad: So there’s something to be said when it comes to zoning around preserving character and things like that.
Saad: What are you seeing as part of a zoning board in terms of, like, you know, are the rules changing to kind of support that, especially in a state like Massachusetts where you have so many of these, like, older homes and, like, mansions that are converted into multiple units and all that kind of stuff. But what are your thoughts on that?
Ash: It’s very it’s interesting because I see it go two directions. Right? You’ll, obviously, because it’s historical, they there’s a limit on, what you can what you can touch and what you can’t touch. And mostly the inside of the properties, like gut rehabs, you’ll be able to get away and be able to do that. However, let’s say there’s, some sort of historical exposed brick on the outside.
Ash: You have to keep that consistent with the guidelines for the city. But one thing that I’ve been noticing is depending on how big let’s say there’s, like, a huge landmark building, like an old church or or something like that. The city would still push to keep it. And this is not specific to my city. I’ve seen a lot of cities do this.
Ash: But the use of what it’s being used for is what they mostly look at. So they try to push it towards something that could benefit the community. For instance, you know, housing for for for the elderly and stuff like that. I’ve seen old historical churches, the exterior stay consistent, obviously, to preserve that historical character, but they’ll use it for to build out condos for, assisted living or or or something like that.
Saad: For a specific for community focused purpose.
Ash: Exactly. Because usually, if you they wouldn’t just let anyone do that type of conversion. Soif it’s something that already has so much historical impact on the city, if you’re gonna convert it, you might as well convert it into something that benefits the community.
Ash: I’ve been seeing. You know? But then, obviously, you go to Newberry Street, you see all these beautiful, historical brownstones. You know? They’ll gut renovate those. They’ll sell those. You know? But you know, but these are those are the directions that I see it go.
Saad: Ash is talking about those new bird of brownstones because, you know, looking for that next $6,000,000.
Mike: Yeah.
Ash: You know, that’s the stuff.
Saad: DM Ash and, you know, maybe DM me on the side.
Mike: And I’ll just be here.
Ash: But definitely I’d say the use of it. That’s been something that’s been big. You know, what are you using it for? Who are you marketing it to? So if it’s more geared towards the community, it’s been it’s it’s a lot it’s a lot more beneficial.
Saad: Gotcha. I know Mike has a question or two.
Saad: I just wanna say hello to a few people. Uzair, we got Jay Lenaris. I wanna say Manjoga is the username.
Mike: Oh.Day
Saad: thirty two, hustling in the house. Bunch of new people. So welcome, everybody. If you guys have questions running today. If you yeah. Like Ash has a plethora of experience with it. So if you guys have questions about zoning or anything else related to what we’ve discussed, please leave them in the comments. We’re here for another six, seven minutes or so, and we’ll try to cover it. If we don’t cover it today, we’ll definitely hit on it another time. You know, DM us or something like that.
Saad: We’ll definitely touch on it. But, Mike, go ahead.
Mike: Ash, I think Everett is, like, such an interesting place because you have essentially two very rare things, one already built, as in the casino. And that changed the landscape of everything in Everett. But now the proposed, soccer field and soccer stadium to go there. So I guess has that influenced you. It had to be something to talk about tis at the zoning meetings. Like, what are those conversations like, surrounding this?
Ash: I mean, definitely a lot of buzz. We are a hot spot, for just building and, you know, development in general with within reason, you know, because obviously that space where the casino is and where all these proposed, projects are being are being laid out, there weren’t there weren’t really much use for them anyways.So I’m glad we’re re hauling it and we’re turning it into something that the community can actually benefit from. It’s just seeing it from my end, it’s it’s generating a lot of buzz. I think the the biggest thing though is you have two sides to the equation where there’s people who are super supportive of of all the growth that’s going on.
Ash: And then there’s a lot of people who you gotta understand. This is like a legacy city. A lot of people have been here for generations and generations and generations. So when you’re coming in and you’re proposing all of these big things, some people are not gonna feel happy about it per se, you know. And this is where the balancing comes in because I think the growth is good.
Ash: It’s just growing it in a sustainable way where people are saying, hey, we’re growing, but we’re not growing at a pace where we feel like we’re pushing people out or yeah. Or, you know, you’re tearing down some sort of, like, ranch single-family that’s been there for years to build more, you know, more housing that’s gonna support the casino or or or whatnot. So that’s kind of been the two sides that I’ve been at.
Mike: On that note, have there been meaningful conversations where people have changed their sentiment? Maybe they were anti everything at the beginning, but they’ve seen that it comes out well.
Ash: Yeah.Definitely.Because, there’s been a huge push for, a train station to get built in. We haven’t had that in years. You know, a lot of people just do a quick pit stop in our city, and then they’re off to wherever they going to. So I think that’s been something that has shifted a lot of people’s perspectives because we’re such a hustle and bustle. There’s a lot of people here that work in the city. So to be able to bring some sort of tea stock to Everett, I think that’s been huge.
Saad: Yeah. How do you…I think what you’re talking about too is, like, getting the public involved. Right?
Ash: Yeah. 100%.
Saad: How do you do that effectively? Because naturally, you do that. You invite a lot of, like, you know, arguments, like, naysayers, things like that. So as somebody who’s on the zoning board, like, how does that work?
Ash: It’s definitely a tough challenge because there’s a lot of opinions. So many opinions. It’s just me my for my I would rather have more opinions from the residents than not have any at all. Because, again, this is the this city is for the people that live in it. And like I said, that’s what I was bringing out that that whole concept of ownership and buying into the communities and developing more ownership. Getting the perspective from the community, it kind of helps you map out which projects you wanna approve, which projects you don’t wanna approve because you wanna make sure it appeals to everybody. Not everyone’s gonna be happy.
Ash: Right? Maybe one person said it. I don’t want this. Somebody else says, hey. Like, I want this, but I don’t want it this way. And that’s where approving projects with certain conditions comes into play, you know. So that way, hey. I’ll approve this, but maybe I’ll I’ll add a condition to it. So what appeases this person as well. So from my perspective, it’s been tough because people get very passionate about it, especially if they’ve lived there for years.
Ash: But the way that I try to yeah. The way that I try to play it is, hey, I’m taking your opinion to account. I’m taking this person’s opinion into account. How can I merge both perspectives into something where people don’t feel like they’re losing, but also they’re also gaining as well?
Saad: And that creates the kind of goodwill that’s, like, it’s kinda, like, builds the community in ways that you don’t. Like it’s, like, deposits into the community without having to kind of, like, you know, go out of your way. You’re just kinda, like, you’re just kinda, like, making sure that you listen to everybody.
Ash: Yeah. Precisely. You know, which is it’s tough. Some people even some people, you still can’t make them happen. You still get a lot of heat for it. But at the end of the day, I think not everyone will be pleased or anything.
Saad: Yeah?
Ash: But that’s why that’s why all of our meetings are open to the public. Everything’s posted on the website. You know, we have an open forum where we allow people to speak in favor or against certain things. So that way, everyone’s being heard.
Saad: Love it, man. This was great. Mike, any other questions?
Mike: I mean, we could go on forever, but we’re respectful of time.
Saad: So we’ll have to we’ll we’ll all link up.We’ll definitely link up, like, properly, in person, and what have you. We will see you at the Evo event.
Ash: That’s we’re doing, yeah, we’re doing a huge networking event. That’s all shit for anybody who’s still on this live. You know, I’d love a formal invite. I’d love to see you I’m sure I’m gonna see both of you guys there.
Saad: So it’d be great to see you. We’ll be there, but this probably will not be the last time you’ll be on Storii Time.
Ash: Sure. Yeah. I’ll hop in again.
Saad: Because, obviously, zoning changes, real estate changes, all that kind of stuff, I think it’ll be really interesting to have you on in, like, six months or something like that. So if you have any who’s listening in, stay tuned.
Saad: If you liked what Ash had to say, please follow him, DM him. He’s awesome. One of the most genuine guys in Greater Boston Real Estate, and it’s been a pleasure to see you grow too.
Ash: That means a lot.
Saad: Excited to have you a part of the story time. Thank you for joining. And, you know, can’t wait for the next time.
Saad: But, but anyways, he’s Ash. That’s Mike. I’m Saad. This is Storii time. We’ll see you guys next week.
Ash: We’ll see you guys.
This Instagram live is transcribed for your easy reading. If you want to catch Storii Time live, every week, follow @saadmun1r and @photolowski on Instagram.